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Multi-System Reactor

[Solved] Local expression evaluation

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    V Offline
    vezinpi
    wrote on last edited by vezinpi
    #1

    Trying to understand what cause a local expresssion to be evaluated. I have read the manual but I am still not clear about it. Using the test rule below, I can see in the log that the rule is being automatically evaluated every time the temperature entity is changing. That is great...

    What I am trying to understand is why the expression is not evaluated based on time as well since the "case" statement has time dependencies.

    Any help would be appreciated

    I have the following test rule:

    eba6a3ea-ff61-4610-88c9-9b9864f11ff8-Screenshot 2025-01-21 095244.png

    2d9c1ff5-7b73-4005-b324-9029c2709db9-Screenshot 2025-01-21 095302.png

    Here is the expressioncode:

    vFrom1 = "09:25:00",
    vFrom2 = "09:30:00",
    vFrom3 = "09:41:00",
    vTo = "10:55:00",
    
    # Get current time (format HH:MM:SS)
    vToDay = strftime("%H:%M:%S"),
    
    #Get current house temperature
    CurrentHouseTemp = getEntity( "hass>Thermostat2 " ).attributes.temperature_sensor.value,
    
    case
      when CurrentHouseTemp <= 19 and vToDay >= vFrom1 && vToDay <= vTo: "true1"   # From1
      when CurrentHouseTemp <= 20 and vToDay >= vFrom2 && vToDay <= vTo: "true2"     # From2
      when CurrentHouseTemp < 26  and vToDay >= vFrom3 && vToDay <= vTo: "true3"  # From3
      else "false"
    end
    

    Using MSR 25016 on Docker, on a Raspberry Pi with Bookworm. Home Assistant, Z-Wave JS-UI

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    • toggledbitsT Offline
      toggledbitsT Offline
      toggledbits
      wrote on last edited by toggledbits
      #2

      Time is never a trigger for expressions. It would basically require re-evaluation every second. There's no way for the expression evaluator to determine your intent in the expressions and find an "edge" where it would know that your conditions are changing. This is unlike the Date/Time and related conditions in the triggers, where it is usually possible to determine when the next event will occur. You should probably be using Date/Time conditions rather than expressions for logic like this.

      TL;DR: that's by design. Time functions don't cause frequent re-evaluations.

      Tip: you can use an Interval condition to force your rule to re-evaluate on the given interval, at which time, your local expressions will also be re-evaluated (local expressions are updated before triggers are scanned when a rule evaluation takes place).

      Also: it's not correct to compare a time string to another time string. Basically, everything about this expression won't work.

      Author of Multi-system Reactor and Reactor, DelayLight, Switchboard, and about a dozen other plugins that run on Vera and openLuup.

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      • V Offline
        V Offline
        vezinpi
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Roger that. Up to this point I was really thinking that It would work like Date/Time.

        Thank you.

        Using MSR 25016 on Docker, on a Raspberry Pi with Bookworm. Home Assistant, Z-Wave JS-UI

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        • toggledbitsT toggledbits

          Time is never a trigger for expressions. It would basically require re-evaluation every second. There's no way for the expression evaluator to determine your intent in the expressions and find an "edge" where it would know that your conditions are changing. This is unlike the Date/Time and related conditions in the triggers, where it is usually possible to determine when the next event will occur. You should probably be using Date/Time conditions rather than expressions for logic like this.

          TL;DR: that's by design. Time functions don't cause frequent re-evaluations.

          Tip: you can use an Interval condition to force your rule to re-evaluate on the given interval, at which time, your local expressions will also be re-evaluated (local expressions are updated before triggers are scanned when a rule evaluation takes place).

          Also: it's not correct to compare a time string to another time string. Basically, everything about this expression won't work.

          V Offline
          V Offline
          vezinpi
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @toggledbits said in [Solved] Local expression evaluation:

          Also: it's not correct to compare a time string to another time string. Basically, everything about this expression won't work.

          I understand that, as you explained, expression cannot auto evaluate based on time. However when manually trigger, the expression do work as intended with time and all.

          I Know that your not in the business of teaching others how to code but does it means that, inside an expression, we should never attempt to perform actions based on time like:

          if strftime("%H:%M:%S") < "08:00:00" then
          ...

          Thanks

          Using MSR 25016 on Docker, on a Raspberry Pi with Bookworm. Home Assistant, Z-Wave JS-UI

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          • tunnusT Offline
            tunnusT Offline
            tunnus
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            If you use Unix epoch format, you can compare two values as they are numbers

            Using MSR on Docker (Synology NAS), having InfluxDB, Grafana & Home Assistant, Hubitat C-8, Zigbee2MQTT

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            • toggledbitsT Offline
              toggledbitsT Offline
              toggledbits
              wrote on last edited by toggledbits
              #6

              At best, comparing numbers within strings is considered bad style. As @tunnus says, you're better off using epoch time format in many cases, which we could say more broadly as, there are numeric forms available that will work better (and show good programming discipline/style).

              Now, your particular tests can be done in epoch time, but that may not be the best approach, since epoch time is absolute from Jan 1 1970 UTC, and you are really just looking at particular daily events. Within Reactor itself, similar calculations are done in MSM form, or Minutes Since Midnight.

              Looking at your "edges" (the points in time where things change), you could set them in MSM form like this:

              vFrom1 = 09 * 60 + 25,
              vFrom2 = 09 * 60 + 30,
              vFrom3 = 09 * 60 + 41,
              vTo = 10 * 60 + 55,
              

              You can see I am multiplying the hour by 60 and then adding the minutes, which gives minutes since midnight for each event time.

              To get the current time in MSM, you can:

              p=dateparts(), vToDay= p.hour * 60 + p.minute,
              

              From there, the rest of your expression should work as you wrote it, but it will now be comparing numbers (MSM):

              #Get current house temperature
              CurrentHouseTemp = getEntity( "hass>Thermostat2" ).attributes.temperature_sensor.value,
              
              case
                when CurrentHouseTemp <= 19 and vToDay >= vFrom1 && vToDay <= vTo: "true1"   # From1
                when CurrentHouseTemp <= 20 and vToDay >= vFrom2 && vToDay <= vTo: "true2"     # From2
                when CurrentHouseTemp < 26  and vToDay >= vFrom3 && vToDay <= vTo: "true3"  # From3
                else "false"
              end
              

              This doesn't change the fact that this expression won't be evaluated periodically on its own. You still need to use an Interval condition to stimulate its re-evaluation.

              Author of Multi-system Reactor and Reactor, DelayLight, Switchboard, and about a dozen other plugins that run on Vera and openLuup.

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              • V Offline
                V Offline
                vezinpi
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @tunnus @toggledbits Thank you both for all your explanation.

                Much appreciated.

                Using MSR 25016 on Docker, on a Raspberry Pi with Bookworm. Home Assistant, Z-Wave JS-UI

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                • tunnusT Offline
                  tunnusT Offline
                  tunnus
                  wrote on last edited by tunnus
                  #8

                  Continuing this discussion, I've noticed that if I have local expressions that contain "getEntity(...)" type of variables, these expressions are evaluated every time entity changes. This happens regardless of triggers.

                  But if I have the same expressions where "getEntity(...)" is replaced by a global variable / expression (and this global variable contains getEntity-structure), these kind of local expressions are not evaluated even if global variable changes. For clarity, expressions would be evaluated if rule is triggered.

                  @toggledbits, is this behaviour by design? Using build 25060 on Docker.

                  Using MSR on Docker (Synology NAS), having InfluxDB, Grafana & Home Assistant, Hubitat C-8, Zigbee2MQTT

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                  • toggledbitsT Offline
                    toggledbitsT Offline
                    toggledbits
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Try restarting after any edits to rules or expressions. I do this kind of structure a lot and I don't see issues, but I'm always willing to look at any reproducible test case you can give me.

                    Author of Multi-system Reactor and Reactor, DelayLight, Switchboard, and about a dozen other plugins that run on Vera and openLuup.

                    tunnusT 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • toggledbitsT toggledbits

                      Try restarting after any edits to rules or expressions. I do this kind of structure a lot and I don't see issues, but I'm always willing to look at any reproducible test case you can give me.

                      tunnusT Offline
                      tunnusT Offline
                      tunnus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @toggledbits well I guess the following test cases should either prove my point or prove me wrong 😬

                      Rule 1: (no real triggers, only comments etc)

                      local expressions:
                      TempOutside = getEntity( "..." ).attributes.temperature_sensor.value


                      Rule 2: (no real triggers, only comments etc)

                      local expressions:
                      TempOutside = g_TempOutside

                      (where g_TempOutside = getEntity( "..." ).attributes.temperature_sensor.value)


                      So in my case "Rule 2" -type of local expressions won't be evaluated unless rule is triggered. I'm pretty sure it used to work differently with earlier builds, about a year ago.

                      Using MSR on Docker (Synology NAS), having InfluxDB, Grafana & Home Assistant, Hubitat C-8, Zigbee2MQTT

                      tunnusT 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • tunnusT tunnus

                        @toggledbits well I guess the following test cases should either prove my point or prove me wrong 😬

                        Rule 1: (no real triggers, only comments etc)

                        local expressions:
                        TempOutside = getEntity( "..." ).attributes.temperature_sensor.value


                        Rule 2: (no real triggers, only comments etc)

                        local expressions:
                        TempOutside = g_TempOutside

                        (where g_TempOutside = getEntity( "..." ).attributes.temperature_sensor.value)


                        So in my case "Rule 2" -type of local expressions won't be evaluated unless rule is triggered. I'm pretty sure it used to work differently with earlier builds, about a year ago.

                        tunnusT Offline
                        tunnusT Offline
                        tunnus
                        wrote on last edited by tunnus
                        #11

                        This case is easy to reproduce, only the question is if this happens by design?

                        Screenshot 2025-03-11 at 21.47.44.png ("TempOutside" is also a global variable, although its naming is a bit misleading)

                        Using MSR on Docker (Synology NAS), having InfluxDB, Grafana & Home Assistant, Hubitat C-8, Zigbee2MQTT

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                        • toggledbitsT Offline
                          toggledbitsT Offline
                          toggledbits
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          It's more a reflection of a limitation in the language implementation and integration. It's incredibly hard to get the dependency scan right, and what I really need to do at this point is go back and remake the expression parser specifically for Reactor, rather than using it as a standalone library (which I nonetheless author, but I was trying to keep it isolated). It's a tricky business, and even changing behavior at this point to make it work the way you think it should will probably goof up somebody else's rules and expressions. I'll add it to the wish list. It's definitely an interesting problem that I'd like to tackle, but it's not going to come painlessly.

                          Workaround for the moment, and I realize it's not great, is to integrate changes conditions for those global variables into the rule's triggers.

                          Author of Multi-system Reactor and Reactor, DelayLight, Switchboard, and about a dozen other plugins that run on Vera and openLuup.

                          tunnusT 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • toggledbitsT toggledbits

                            It's more a reflection of a limitation in the language implementation and integration. It's incredibly hard to get the dependency scan right, and what I really need to do at this point is go back and remake the expression parser specifically for Reactor, rather than using it as a standalone library (which I nonetheless author, but I was trying to keep it isolated). It's a tricky business, and even changing behavior at this point to make it work the way you think it should will probably goof up somebody else's rules and expressions. I'll add it to the wish list. It's definitely an interesting problem that I'd like to tackle, but it's not going to come painlessly.

                            Workaround for the moment, and I realize it's not great, is to integrate changes conditions for those global variables into the rule's triggers.

                            tunnusT Offline
                            tunnusT Offline
                            tunnus
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            @toggledbits the main thing is that now I know that this behaviour is not a bug and there's a clear alternative (not using global variables when rule does not trigger often enough).

                            Anyway, MSR is a great software and thanks for your continued support!

                            Using MSR on Docker (Synology NAS), having InfluxDB, Grafana & Home Assistant, Hubitat C-8, Zigbee2MQTT

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