Wow Gemini A.i. has it all totally covered lol. I had like an hour long conversation with it. It says it can tell me exactly how to setup such a new HA system step by step and has even come up with a migration plan for my MSR rules!

We are currently talking about building dashboards in HA.

I told it I was currently using Home Remote with Vera and I described my current dashboard menu structure and sub menu structure and how I have a menu item for each room etc.

A.I. is telling me how to do the same in Home Assistant talking about different card options. Its even shown me some HA dashboard demos from YouTube and it says it can "watch" and understand these videos. So if I pick one I like it can then advise me how to build it in Home Assistant.

Witch craft it's just like talking too a human expert.

So think I won't need to ask to many questions on the forum now.

My mind is blown about the A.I. conversation I just had. I've never spoken to them in depth before and not about technical stuff.

I will still be avoiding A.I. in general however.

Humans are totally cooked, we will all be replaced by the robots.

This video is wild and super scary, if real and why I very rarely use A.I.

I'd love to hear you guys opinions as being the expert technical guys you are.

Woman Claims "Something Sinister" Is Taking Over The Internet, And It's Crazier Than We Think

A.I. is pretty good! I don't normally use it tbh. Scared of the future robots gonna rule the world.

I asked:

Yes please tell me more about the general concepts of Proxmox. I do know what virtual machines are however I have used them in the past. But I have never heard of Proxmox before. I am familiar with Debian however I already have a thin client here running Debian and Multi System Reactor aka MSR. MSR is a 3rd party logic rules engine which can be used with your devices in Home Assistant. I need a new setup that allows me to run home assistant and msr on the same pc etc.

It replied but it recommends to run MSR in an LXC rather than a full VM. The whole setup sounds it would be brilliant, but for me to do it, is probably lot of time, learning and head straching lol. So it's gonna be a commitment.

Here is what it said:

Since you are already comfortable with Debian and Virtual Machines, Proxmox is going to feel like a superpower for your home lab.
​What is Proxmox?
​Proxmox Virtual Environment (PVE) is a Type-1 Hypervisor.
​Type-2 (What you've used): Like VirtualBox on Windows. You have an OS, then an app, then the VM.
​Type-1 (Proxmox): It is the OS. It sits directly on the "bare metal" hardware.
​Crucially for you, Proxmox is built on top of Debian. When you install it, you are essentially installing a highly customized version of Debian with a world-class Web GUI to manage VMs and Containers.
​The Strategy: Running HAOS and MSR Together
​Since you want to run both Home Assistant and Multi-System Reactor (MSR) on one machine, Proxmox is the perfect "manager" to keep them isolated but interconnected.
​1. Home Assistant (The VM)
​You will create a Virtual Machine (VM) and install HAOS directly into it.
​Why a VM? HAOS wants to "own" the hardware. In a VM, Proxmox gives it a virtualized hard drive and CPU, keeping it stable and allowing for the "Add-on Store" to work perfectly.
​Ease of use: There are famous "Helper Scripts" (by tteck) that allow you to install HAOS on Proxmox with a single command.
​2. Multi-System Reactor (The LXC Container)
​Since MSR is a Node.js application that runs great on Linux, you don't need a full VM for it. You should use a Linux Container (LXC).
​What is an LXC? It’s lighter than a VM. It shares the Proxmox (Debian) kernel but has its own file system.
​The Benefit: An LXC for MSR will use almost zero idle RAM (around 100-200MB) compared to a full VM which might grab 2GB just to boot.
​Why this is better than your current setup:
​Snapshots: Before you update Home Assistant or change a massive rule in MSR, you click "Snapshot." If it breaks, you hit "Rollback" and you're back in 10 seconds.
​Backups: Proxmox can automatically back up your entire HA setup and MSR setup to an external drive or NAS every night while you sleep.
​Hardware Pass-through: If you have a Zigbee or Z-Wave USB stick, Proxmox makes it easy to "pass" that physical USB port into the Home Assistant VM.
​The "Debian" Safety Net: Since the base is Debian, you can still SSH into the host and use familiar commands if you ever need to troubleshoot the hardware level.
​Recommended "UK eBay PC" Allocation:
​If you buy an 8th Gen i5 with 16GB RAM (as discussed):
​Proxmox Host: Uses ~1GB RAM.
​HAOS VM: Assign 4GB RAM (it will use ~2GB).
​MSR LXC: Assign 1GB RAM (it will use ~200MB).
​Leftover: You still have 10GB of RAM free to experiment with other things like Pi-Hole, Plex, or a local MQTT broker.
​Would you like me to find those "Helper Scripts" for you so you can see how easy the one-command installation is?

@tamorgen said in How to upgrade from an old version of MSR?:

run HA and MSR as VMs on Proxmox

So your running MSR and HA as virtual machines? On Proxmox.

I've never heard of Proxmox before, will have to look into it.

So whats the advantage of running them as virtual machines?

Vs running Home Assistant OS and MSR also running on the same OS (if possible).

Edit: Gemini A.I. told me lol.

Which should you choose for your Mini PC?
​Since you're getting a dedicated Mini PC, you have two great paths:

​The "Easy" Way (Bare Metal): Flash the HAOS image directly onto the Mini PC's hard drive. It turns your Dell/HP/Lenovo into a dedicated "Home Assistant Hub." It’s rock solid and zero maintenance.

​The "Pro" Way (Proxmox): Install a hypervisor called Proxmox (which is based on Debian) on the PC first. Then, run HAOS in a Virtual Machine.
​Why do this? It allows you to use the leftover power of your Mini PC to run other things (like a media server or a file server) alongside Home Assistant without them interfering with each other.

‐--------

So it sounds like if I just use HAOS it's locked down OS and I won't be able to install other things like MSR. So looks like I need to go down the Proxmox route as you suggested.

@therealdb Ok I watched some YouTube videos and understand some more now.

So I could use a Zooz USB Z-Wave controller stick and within Home Assistant you use ZwaveJS addon as the software for adding new Zwave devices and you can also manage your devices by doing firmware updates on them and you can also manage your Z-Wave mesh network and nodes and the routes etc. That all looks pretty cool!

Home Assistant can then be used to create your custom dashboard etc and we can still use MSR to create our logic rules, instead of whatever they tend to use in Home Assistant is? I think they either use Home Assistants inbuilt rules engine or NodeRed right?

Second option is the same as above but instead of using a Zooz USB stick you can use the newish ZWA-2 massive antenna / Z-Wave controller instead also with ZwaveJS addon within Home Assistant etc. For all your existing Z-Wave devices.

If using Z-Wave long range for a particular device then that device talks directly to the ZWA-2 controller and is then not part of the regular Z-Wave mesh network but is then separate.

I think I have a very basic understanding now.

I also need to choose a Zigbee USB stick / controller. I have not looked into that as yet. I do have a few Zigbee devices here but never used them as Vera / Ezlo was crap for Zigbee devices. Even their new Ezlo hub where you could pair Zigbee devices to them, over a period of time those Zigbee devices would just go offline and stop working. So I gave up on using Zigbee and Ezlo never fixed the problem I don't think.

OK I might have to do it on bulk then as you say.

I've been looking at some old rules that I have not touched or done anything with or messed with those devices at all, those rules seem fine and still have the binary_sensor.state attribute etc.

But I am sure for "new" devices I have paired back to the Vera hub today and then had to correct / edit those rules or create new rules, them ones only showed me the extended attributes only in that menu.

These are some other "new" devices paired / added today to the Vera hub and their rules / triggers.

1. This is the Site Sensor plugin new today on Vera, it only has extended attributes (Maybe expected for that as its a virtual device?)

2. Another motion sensor I paired today a Hank one. That also has no Reactor defined Capability / Attribute, there was only extended attributes available in the menu.

3. This one did work, a Hank door sensor, I paired yesterday, that one does have binary_sensor.state.

So it seems hit or miss if the new devices get them or not.

I will double check what happens? When I paired more new devices soon.

Thanks.

They are back in the menu now!

But it seems all the Vera devices and rules I have looked at today none of them had Reactor defined capability / attributes. I will have to check some more rules / devices to see what is happening?

After Delete / Restart:

arming.state=false
battery_power.alert_level=0.5
battery_power.level=1
battery_power.since=1769544986000
binary_sensor.state=false
motion_sensor.state=false
x_vera_device.configured=true
x_vera_device.device_number=837
x_vera_device.device_type="urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:MotionSensor:1"
x_vera_device.failed=null
x_vera_device.parent_device=1
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.BatteryDate="1769544986"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.BatteryLevel="100"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.ChildrenSameRoom="1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.Configured="1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.EnableFlashControl="1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.FirstConfigured="1769545001"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.LastUpdate="1769545001"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.ModeSetting="1:;2:A;3:;4:A"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.sl_Alarm="TAMPER_ALARM"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.sl_TamperAlarm="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.Armed="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.ArmedTripped="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.IgnoreTripTime="2"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.LastTamper="1769547681"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.LastTrip="1769547681"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.Tripped="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.AgiInfo="X"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.AlarmType="0x7,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.AlarmVersion="0,1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.AssociationNum="5"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.Capabilities="83,156,1,4,7,1,R,B,RS,|32S,34,48S:1,49:8,86,89,90S,94,112S,113S:5,114,115,122,128,132S:2,133S,134,142S,152,156S,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.ConfiguredAssoc=""
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.ConfiguredVariable="1-Motion detection sensitivity (8-255),1d,,6-Motion detection-alarm cancellation delay,2d,,24-Tamper operating modes (0-2),1d,,40-Illuminance report-threshold,2d,,42-Illuminance report-interval,2d,,60-Temperature report-threshold,2d,,62-Temperature measuring-interval,2d,,64-Temperature report-interval,2d,,66-Temperature offset,2d,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.ConfiguredWakeupInterval="7200"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.FirmwareInfo="271,2065,12631"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.LastReset="1769544953"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.ManufacturerInfo="271,2049,4098"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.NodeInfo="22,31,56,59,5e,72,73,7a,80,86,98,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.PlusInfo="1,6,0,12,7,12,7"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.SecurityFailed="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.SensorMlType="1,3,25"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.SubscribedAlarms=",0x7,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.VariablesGet="1,15,6,30,24,0,40,200,42,3600,60,10,62,900,64,0,66,0,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.VariablesSet="1-Motion detection sensitivity (8-255),1d,,6-Motion detection-alarm cancellation delay,2d,,24-Tamper operating modes (0-2),1d,,40-Illuminance report-threshold,2d,,42-Illuminance report-interval,2d,,60-Temperature report-threshold,2d,,62-Temperature measuring-interval,2d,,64-Temperature report-interval,2d,,66-Temperature offset,2d,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.VersionInfo="3,4,24,3,3"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.WakeupCapabilities="1,65535,7200,1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.WakeupInterval="7200"
zwave_device.capabilities="83,156,1,4,7,1,R,B,RS,|32S,34,48S:1,49:8,86,89,90S,94,112S,113S:5,114,115,122,128,132S:2,133S,134,142S,152,156S,"
zwave_device.failed=null
zwave_device.manufacturer_info="271,2049,4098"
zwave_device.node_id=162
zwave_device.version_info="3,4,24,3,3"

OK Got it.

@toggledbits said in This trigger no longer working - complaining about the operator needing changing:

I would delete the entity (using the delete button in the entity detail display), and the restart Reactor and see if it re-creates the Reactor-defined capabilities and attributes.

OK let me see if I can do that. You mean pressing the X here ? And then adding it back in to the trigger right?

Well I've fixed the Trigger now. It was my fault I misunderstood what the popup was telling me. It was telling me it was gonna get rid of "is True" and blank that out, which is fine and as you said.

I thought it meant it was going to remove some other "Conditions" further down in the rule as I said.

Thanks

x_vera_device.configured=true
x_vera_device.device_number=837
x_vera_device.device_type="urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:GenericIO:1"
x_vera_device.failed=null
x_vera_device.parent_device=1
x_vera_device.room_id="11"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.BatteryDate="1769544986"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.BatteryLevel="100"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.ChildrenSameRoom="1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.Configured="1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.EnableFlashControl="1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.FirstConfigured="1769545001"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.LastUpdate="1769545001"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.ModeSetting="1:;2:A;3:;4:A"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.sl_Alarm="TAMPER_ALARM"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.sl_Alarm_updated=1769547652204
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.sl_TamperAlarm="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_HaDevice1.sl_TamperAlarm_updated=1769547682708
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.Armed="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.ArmedTripped="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.IgnoreTripTime="2"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.LastTamper="1769547681"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.LastTrip="1769547681"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_SecuritySensor1.Tripped="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.AgiInfo="X"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.AlarmType="0x7,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.AlarmVersion="0,1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.AssociationNum="5"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.Capabilities="83,156,1,4,7,1,R,B,RS,|32S,34,48S:1,49:8,86,89,90S,94,112S,113S:5,114,115,122,128,132S:2,133S,134,142S,152,156S,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.ConfiguredAssoc=""
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.ConfiguredVariable="1-Motion detection sensitivity (8-255),1d,,6-Motion detection-alarm cancellation delay,2d,,24-Tamper operating modes (0-2),1d,,40-Illuminance report-threshold,2d,,42-Illuminance report-interval,2d,,60-Temperature report-threshold,2d,,62-Temperature measuring-interval,2d,,64-Temperature report-interval,2d,,66-Temperature offset,2d,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.ConfiguredWakeupInterval="7200"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.FirmwareInfo="271,2065,12631"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.LastReset="1769544953"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.ManufacturerInfo="271,2049,4098"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.NodeInfo="22,31,56,59,5e,72,73,7a,80,86,98,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.PlusInfo="1,6,0,12,7,12,7"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.SecurityFailed="0"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.SensorMlType="1,3,25"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.SubscribedAlarms=",0x7,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.VariablesGet="1,15,6,30,24,0,40,200,42,3600,60,10,62,900,64,0,66,0,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.VariablesSet="1-Motion detection sensitivity (8-255),1d,,6-Motion detection-alarm cancellation delay,2d,,24-Tamper operating modes (0-2),1d,,40-Illuminance report-threshold,2d,,42-Illuminance report-interval,2d,,60-Temperature report-threshold,2d,,62-Temperature measuring-interval,2d,,64-Temperature report-interval,2d,,66-Temperature offset,2d,"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.VersionInfo="3,4,24,3,3"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.WakeupCapabilities="1,65535,7200,1"
x_vera_svc_micasaverde_com_ZWaveDevice1.WakeupInterval="7200"
zwave_device.capabilities="83,156,1,4,7,1,R,B,RS,|32S,34,48S:1,49:8,86,89,90S,94,112S,113S:5,114,115,122,128,132S:2,133S,134,142S,152,156S,"
zwave_device.failed=null
zwave_device.manufacturer_info="271,2049,4098"
zwave_device.node_id=162
zwave_device.version_info="3,4,24,3,3"

@toggledbits said in This trigger no longer working - complaining about the operator needing changing:

When you use any extended attribute, like x_vera_anything.anything (the x_vera part being the clue that's an extended capability and attribute), that system's native type governs, and for Vera, that's a string, so is TRUE and is FALSE don't apply.

Yes that's correct, I understand that is why I now need to use 1 or 0 instead of True or False etc.

@toggledbits said in This trigger no longer working - complaining about the operator needing changing:

If you choose a Reactor-defined capability and attribute, it will recognize the operator's required type (so things like is TRUE and is FALSE will be allowed for attributes known to be boolean)

Yes that's right that's how it use to work. However now I am noticing I don't seem to have these Reactor defined capability and attribute anymore in that menu. I just seem to have the extended attributes only now. I will post the attributes list of this device in a moment.

@toggledbits said in This trigger no longer working - complaining about the operator needing changing:

It's just telling you that the conditions options (under the dot-dot-dot button/icon) are going to be cleared because the operator is changing.

oh is that all? I thought it meant it was going to start deleting some of the lower Constraints in the rule.

Think I might have to delete the rule and start again with some slightly different logic.

Trigger:

Motion is detected in the Hallway

Constraints: (Conditions)

LUX Level <= 100
Motion Sensor = Disarmed
A virtual switch (Dark Mode) = OFF

Set Reaction:

If Vera is in Home Mode then set the Hallway light to 40%

If Vera is in Night Mode then set the Hallway light to 20%

Reset Reaction:

Turn the light OFF

I think this rule worked in the past but it was disabled for a while so maybe not. Don't think I arm this motion sensor for any reason, perhaps I need two rules instead now.

I just unpaired a Fibaro motion sensor from an Ezlo hub and paired it to my Vera hub instead. I already had an existing rule and just tried to fix it by changing the now "unknown" device to the "new" device etc.

But the trigger looks wrong and if I attempted to correct it I get a message from MSR about removing none default conditions.

Trigger:

I think the "Is True" part now needs changing to -- value of 1 instead. However when I select the -- operator I see this message.

Here is the rest of the rule:

Constraints:

Set Reaction:

Reset Reaction:

In MSR for Vera devices I now only seem to have the Extended attribute options available in the menu, so the values for a tripped or not tripped motion sensor for example are always going to be 1 or 0

Seems in the past however for Vera devices you could select another option rather than an extended attribute (One that MSR created for the user to make it "easier") and use True or False and it looks like it was using that also when this motion sensor device was previously paired to the Ezlo hub. If that makes sense?

I just found this old screenshot on the forum on an old post. I think its the binary_sensor.state (primary) I am thinking of that we used in the past with True or False. Those have now gone etc.

Thanks

@toggledbits ok thanks will try that.

I've currently got the Interval set to 60 secs and the Timeout now at 10 secs.

I just wanted to know if the Emby server goes down as my mum connects to it remotely sometimes and I don't always notice if it's no longer up and running.

Cheers.

@therealdb OK I think I understand.

So if I had an Aeotec USB stick, I could then use ZwaveJS with that USB stick and ZwaveJS is like the driver / Z-Wave stack software for it then right?

I think I will still need to use Home Assistant as well as they would provide me with the Dashboard interface / app etc.

I will look more into ZWA-2 that you mentioned and learn more.

I like the new search feature for rulesets in MSR also! very handy, has helped me find associated rules today about some devices I have removed from one controller and added to a different controller. I could then more easily find such rules and edit their triggers to reflect the device location changes etc. I need to read the MSR release notes to also see what is new and different.