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Discussion Forum to share and further the development of home control and automation, independent of platforms.
CatmanV2C

CatmanV2

@CatmanV2
Gradually turn on lights.
Tom_DT
I have several lights that I would like to turn on very gradually over 15 or 20 seconds. from 0 to .25 in .01 increments. I have tried a few things that came nowhere near working, so here I am.
Multi-System Reactor
Stop the MSR by an external switch on Hubitat.
wmarcolinW
Use case: When performing home maintenance, such as air conditioning, I want all rules involving air conditioning to be disabled. To do this, to day, I have a virtual switch that I placed within all rules involving air conditioning, meaning that if I turn it off, none of them work. Then another situation: the water pump system and garden irrigation, another switch. In short, I had to create several virtual switches in Hubitat to disable rules in MSR. Unfortunately, however, I was unable to cover all scenarios, so I wondered if it would be possible for MSR to support a virtual MSR switch, which, when configured in the reactor settings, would function as a general on/off switch for MSR. If it is configured and turned off, the entire rules and actions in MSR stops working, except for the status change reading process, specifically for this switch, which, when turned on, would restart the MSR. Would it be possible to do something like this? Any recommendations from the experts?
Multi-System Reactor
Error After Upgrade
T
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Multi-System Reactor
Reset attribute value of entity in event handler
R
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Multi-System Reactor
Need help figuring out how to delay a reset on reaction
T
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Multi-System Reactor
Way to search for rules (rule state) in other rules
T
@toggledbits, not sure if this is a feature request or I'm using the search tool wrong. You have a "Search for rule" in the Rules Set tab in MSR. It works nicely to find a rule and bring up said rule, but can it/could it be used for as a "where used?" global search? For instance, I have a fairly large set of rules, divided up into 10 different rulesets. There's easily a hundred individual rules, and many of the rules have Rule State triggers, which of course refer to other rules. Amongst my troubleshooting today, I came across what may have been a duplicate or troubleshooting attempt, but I can't tell if it's actually used as a Rule State in another rule without opening each rule that I suspect it may be a part of. Thanks.
Multi-System Reactor
Links to MSR from HA
Tom_DT
I am using Home Assistant a lot recently. On a dashboard showing the devices, I would like to show a link to the MSR rule that controls the devices. Is there a way to link directly into MSR?
Multi-System Reactor
Set Reaction > Script Action
wmarcolinW
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Multi-System Reactor
Wiring Samotech SM308-S into light fitting
F
Hi Smart Home Community. I have used a Sonos inline WiFi switch to make one of my light fittings smart, but it requires a hard reset for WiFi changes, plus it isn't zigbee compatible, which means I can't use the Hue app to control it with the rest of the lights. To that end I bought a Samotech SM308-S as it is recommended as the better than the Sonos equivalent. I am however not exactly sure how to wire it in. The manual is available here Can anyone help me by clarifying which ports I need to use, and whether I should be using the live or switched live line for live etc. I will be keeping using standard switches for a while, although hope to upgrade to tap dials once I have all the fittings upgraded. Thanks
Hardware
Errors after updating to MQTTController build 25139
tunnusT
I'm running MSR build 25139 on Docker, using MQTT controller 24293, and everything working as expected. But if I try to upgrade to MQTTController build 25139, I'm getting the following errors on MSR UI: An Entity Attribute condition in "Lay-Z-Spa auto heating off" (Terrace) failed because the referenced entity "Lay-Z-Spa States" (mqtt>layzspa_states) does not have attribute value_sensor.god Last 11:20:37 An Entity Attribute condition in "Lay-Z-Spa auto heating off" (Terrace) failed because the referenced entity "Lay-Z-Spa States" (mqtt>layzspa_states) does not have attribute temperature_sensor.green Last 11:20:37 An Entity Attribute condition in "Lay-Z-Spa filter pump auto off" (Terrace) failed because the referenced entity "Lay-Z-Spa States" (mqtt>layzspa_states) does not have attribute temperature_sensor.red Last 11:20:37 An Entity Attribute condition in "Lay-Z-Spa filter pump auto run" (Terrace) failed because the referenced entity "Lay-Z-Spa States" (mqtt>layzspa_states) does not have attribute value_sensor.pump Last 11:20:37 An Entity Attribute condition in "Lay-Z-Spa watchdog" (Terrace) failed because the referenced entity "Lay-Z-Spa States" (mqtt>layzspa_states) does not have attribute value_sensor.status Last 11:20:37 My MQTT configuration (local_mqtt_devices.yaml) for the related entity is: layzspa_message: type: ValueSensor capabilities: ["temperature_sensor", "value_sensor", "power_sensor"] primary_attribute: power_sensor.value events: "layzspa/message": "power_sensor.value": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.PWR )' expr: "float(payload.PWR)" "value_sensor.air": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.AIR )' expr: "float(payload.AIR)" "value_sensor.pump": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.FLT )' expr: "float(payload.FLT)" "value_sensor.god": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.GOD )' expr: "float(payload.GOD)" "value_sensor.lock": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.LCK )' expr: "float(payload.LCK)" "value_sensor.unit": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.UNT )' expr: "float(payload.UNT)" "value_sensor.error": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.ERR )' expr: "float(payload.ERR)" "temperature_sensor.green": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.GRN )' expr: "float(payload.GRN)" "temperature_sensor.red": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.RED )' expr: "float(payload.RED)" "temperature_sensor.target": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.TGT )' expr: "float(payload.TGT)" "temperature_sensor.value": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.TMP )' expr: "float(payload.TMP)" "temperature_sensor.virtual": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.VTM )' expr: "round(float(payload.VTM), 1)" "temperature_sensor.ambient": json_payload: true if_expr: '! isnull( payload?.AMB )' expr: "float(payload.AMB)" "layzspa/Status": "value_sensor.status": if_expr: '! isnull( payload )' expr: "payload" "layzspa/button": "value_sensor.button": if_expr: '! isnull( payload )' expr: "payload" and in reactor.yaml I have: "layzspa_states": name: "Lay-Z-Spa States" friendly_name: 'Lay-Z-Spa States' include: layzspa_message I realize my MQTT configuration might be a bit unorthodox, but could there still be something unintentional in the latest MQTTController build? If needed, I can provide detailed logs.
Multi-System Reactor
🎉 My very first MSR controller: OpenSprinkler
therealdbT
Since today is my birthday - and I still pretend to be unconventional - I'm giving away a present to this wonderful community and I'm releasing my first OpenSprinkler controller for MSR. It was real fun to code it - and while it's still WIP, it seems to work OK for me. It's polling-based at the moment, but I'll add support for updates via MQTT very soon (it's already partially coded). Get it at (install is similar to MQTTController and such): https://github.com/dbochicchio/reactor-opensprinkler Feel free to try it. It's beta software, but it's stable. I'll update it weekly until all the tasks from my todo list are empty. Since I've learnt a lot from this controller, I'll explore new controllers soon.
Multi-System Reactor
Advice reqeusted to migrate MSR from Bare Metal to Container
T
Good day all, I'm in the process of trying to shut down my 10 year old Linux home server that served many purposes, but primarily it's what I used for my NAS/Plex Media server. I migrated the NAS aspect of the server in November of last year to a true NAS solution (Ubiquti UNAS Pro), which is rack mount and much more efficient than my old tower, which it's only side benefit was heating my home office during the winter. Unfortunately it also means heating my home office during the summer, which were about to be in full swing. I have two things running on this 10 year old server at this point. MSR and pi-hole. I'm running Plex Media Server on Fedora Workstation in Podman on mini PC, which is much more energy efficient than my old tower. My next step is to migrate MSR. I know there are images of MSR out there, and creating it is well documented. I'm going to be using Podman instead of Docker for various reasons, but they work very similar. What I don't know, is what I need to do to migrate my existing Bare Metal installation over to a container. Has anyone done this? Any advice?
Multi-System Reactor
Reactor (Multi-System/Multi-Hub) Announcements
toggledbitsT
Build 21228 has been released. Docker images available from DockerHub as usual, and bare-metal packages here. Home Assistant up to version 2021.8.6 supported; the online version of the manual will now state the current supported versions; Fix an error in OWMWeatherController that could cause it to stop updating; Unify the approach to entity filtering on all hub interface classes (controllers); this works for device entities only; it may be extended to other entities later; Improve error detail in messages for EzloController during auth phase; Add isRuleSet() and isRuleEnabled() functions to expressions extensions; Implement set action for lock and passage capabilities (makes them more easily scriptable in some cases); Fix a place in the UI where 24-hour time was not being displayed.
Multi-System Reactor
Z-Wave Future....
DesTD
https://forum.z-wave.me/viewtopic.php?f=3417&t=36140 That's not a good thing I think Time to switch again?
Z-Wave.me
Can´t restart or upgrade/deploy MSR
F
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Multi-System Reactor
[Solved] Limit HA Entity in MSR
wmarcolinW
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Multi-System Reactor
Disaster recovery and virtualisation
CatmanV2C
Following on from my last thread, some progress has been made over the weekend. With 18G of spanky RAM in my Synology DS224+. I've jumped into the murky world of virtualisation and already eliminated the need for two Raspberry Pi's from my system. Home Assistant: In theory they provide an OVA file which is supported by the Synology. I couldn't get it to work, however, so grabbed a copy of the .img file they supply, renamed it .iso and imported it as a VM. Restored from my full back up and that all seems fantastic. Minidnla Music server: Trivial. Grabbed a Debian .iso for Bookworm and copied that onto the NAS. Created a new machine which mirrored the specs of the Raspberry Pi, booted from the ISO then did an expert install. Once that was all stable with a basic core of stuff and networking, I've made a copy of that as a good base system. Then fired up minidnla on it, mounted my media and that's also woking. Not bad for a short weekend's work. Still not sure about the main NUC though. I'm thinking of buying a new USB stick so I can mess around getting it working on the Synology before I do anything drastic. Once that hurdle is sorted I'm torn between: Using a brand new install of Bookworm, re-installing Z-way server, OpenLuup, AltUI, MSR and HA bridge, then restoring across or Making an ISO of the current system, importing that and upgrading in place (which will be pretty risk free since I can snapshot everything before I make any changes.) Decisions, decisions. C
General Discussion
Remote access of Zwave stick from Z-wave server
CatmanV2C
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Software
Organizing/ structuring rule sets and rules
R
Hi guys, Just wondering how you guys organize your rule sets and rules. I wish I had an extra layer to have some more granularity, but my feature request was not popular. Maybe there are better ways to organize my rule sets. I use the rule sets now primarily for rooms. So a rule set per room. But maybe grouping by functionality works better. Any examples/ suggestions would be appreciated.
Multi-System Reactor
Moving MSR from a QNAP container to RP 5 - some issues
Tom_DT
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Multi-System Reactor
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Recent Best Controversial

  • Z-Wave Future....
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Just bought a new one as well. Looks like it'll probably keep working as long as it doesn't become un-compatible

    C

    Z-Wave.me

  • Disaster recovery and virtualisation
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Well after much trepidation, and some additional work, I think we are complete.

    After the successful virtualisation of my Home Assistant and Music Server hosts, and a successful POC of the main Vera / MQTT / MSR / everything else box I did some testing with a spare UZB stick to make sure I could connect it to the virtual host.

    With a long weekend ahead to solve any issues, this morning I bit the bullet and shut down the hardware device, moved the production UZB stick over to the NAS and spun up the VM.

    It was not entirely smooth as for some reason Z-way-server was saying it wasn't connected and AltUI claimed an authentication issue, but with some judicious restarts and testing, everything that I can think of to test now works!

    Some of the Z-wave commands from remote controls are a little slow, oddly, but I suspect the network needs to sort itself out as it's nearly two months 'old' Direct control from web interfaces / voice commands seems fine so I'm not overly worried.

    So, barring any unforseen failures, I have a fully virtualised system. Better even, when reading about the Synology range, I decided to source an older unit as a backup cluster device so I have some serious resilience 🙂

    Thanks for all the support an input!

    C

    General Discussion

  • Remote access of Zwave stick from Z-wave server
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    For anyone coming on this later, you can't specify ip / port in Z-way server. You need to run socat on the z-way server host as specced here:
    https://forum.z-wave.me/viewtopic.php?f=3417&t=32593&p=83558&hilit=socat#p83558

    If you're using ser2net you shouldn't need to use socat on the host that's serving the stick

    C

    Software

  • Remote access of Zwave stick from Z-wave server
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Although if I plug my spare stick into the Synology and map it to the VM, it picks it up instantly anyway!

    C

    Software

  • Remote access of Zwave stick from Z-wave server
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Afternoon, all.

    In my continued attempts to virtualise my system, I'm in the last (I hope throes)

    I don't fancy relying on Synology not to break more USB activities, so decided to set up ser2net on a Raspberry pi and plug in a spare Z-wave.me stick

    So on the Raspberry pi: ser2net. yaml

    catman@Zwave:/etc $ cat ser2net.yaml
    %YAML 1.1
    ---
    # This is a ser2net configuration file, tailored to be rather
    # simple.
    #
    # Find detailed documentation in ser2net.yaml(5)
    # A fully featured configuration file is in
    # /usr/share/doc/ser2net/examples/ser2net.yaml.gz
    # 
    # If you find your configuration more useful than this very simple
    # one, please submit it as a bugreport
    
    define: &banner \r\nser2net port \p device \d [\B] (Debian GNU/Linux)\r\n\r\n
    
    connection: &zwave0
        # Bind to TCP port
        accepter: tcp,4000
        enable: on
        options:
            kickolduser: true
            # Ensure mDNS is disabled
            mdns: false
        connector: serialdev, /dev/ttyACM0,115200N81,nobreak,local
    

    And if I telnet to it from anywhere:

    catman@ChrisMBP15-2018 ~ % telnet 192.168.70.128 4000
    Trying 192.168.70.128...
    Connected to 192.168.70.128.
    Escape character is '^]'.
    
    

    Which makes me think that ser2net is doing its thing.

    Now in my virtualised Z-wave server I have this:

    Screenshot 2025-04-10 at 17.36.52.png

    (I've tried with a colon and a space between the ip and the port)

    The result:

    An unexpected error occurred during loading data. Try to reload the page.
    Please check
    1.) if the controller is plugged in correctly,
    2.) that in the app 'Z-Wave Network Access' the right port is entered
    (UZB: '/dev/ttyACM0', RaZberry shield: '/dev/ttyAMA0', UZB-Windows: '\\.\COM3', Z-Stick: '/dev/ttyUSB0', embedded boxes: '/dev/ttyS0' or '/dev/ttyS1')
    3.) the app is aktiv. If not you could activate it under Menu > Apps > Active or add a new one under Menu > Apps > Local.
    The Setting 'Expert View' needs to be active under Menu > My Settings.
    

    Any pointers as to what I'm doing wrong?

    TIA!

    C

    Software

  • Disaster recovery and virtualisation
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Thanks. I've got a new 6TB drive coming in a couple of days (I tried an enterprise level disc I had snagged from the office on an off chance, and it was fine) so I've got a 50% uplift on my storage. The two VMs that are running are noticeably snappier on VMs than on Pis, which is nice. Particularly when browsing 9k music tracks, which now takes a couple of seconds rather than the Pi's 20ish

    Once the drive upgrade is in place, I'm not quite sure where to go next. Just bite the bullet and try and connect the Zway stick straight into the VM. Try it with a new Zway stick for experimentation, or do something else.

    I'm far more comfortable now, though. I have snapshots and OVA images and everything!

    C

    General Discussion

  • Disaster recovery and virtualisation
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    After a few false starts, some significant progress:

    1. Shut down the NUC
    2. Insert bootable USB (in my case I went for Debian)
    3. Insert USB mounted hard drive
    4. Connect monitor, keyboard, mouse
    5. Boot into USB
    6. Open terminal
    7. Confirm your drives (IMPORTANT)
    8. dd if=/dev/$original_drive of=/$mountpoint_of_USB_Hardrive/Image.iso
    9. Wait (about 45 minutes for me)

    Now this is where I found things trickier than I was expecting.
    😎 Create a VM in the Synology console, and give it a bootable ISO file to be mounted. I would have used Debian but any graphical interface just wouldn't work. Puppy Debian worked very nicely. Ensure that your virtual disc is larger than the image you created in step 7 above, but leave it empty. I suggest you leave your network disconnected to stop IP conflicts (assuming you have a static IP on your Openluup box)
    Plug your USB hard drive with the ISO image into your Synology and in the USB section of your VM connect to that device (another gotcha, if the adapter is USB3 it won't work under USB2 No idea why)
    9) Boot into Puppy or your preferred distro.
    10) Make sure your ISO file is visible to the OS
    11) Check
    10) Make sure the USB drive is mounted so the OS can see the
    11) Confirm your target drive (less important this time)
    12) dd if=/$USB_hard_drive_mount_point/image.iso of=/dev/$virtual_hard_drive_name
    13) Wait (about 2 hours this time)
    14) Shut down the VM
    15) Edit the VM to remove the bootable USB image (and the USB hard drive if preferred)
    16) Boot the VM
    17) Be a little surprised when it all comes up!
    18) Configure the network to your desires, again avoiding IP conflicts
    19) Edit the VM to connect to the network

    This is where I am. I can see AltUI, MSR, HA bridge on the new VM through a browser. So very very happy at this point!

    C

    General Discussion

  • Disaster recovery and virtualisation
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Following on from my last thread, some progress has been made over the weekend.

    With 18G of spanky RAM in my Synology DS224+. I've jumped into the murky world of virtualisation and already eliminated the need for two Raspberry Pi's from my system.

    Home Assistant: In theory they provide an OVA file which is supported by the Synology. I couldn't get it to work, however, so grabbed a copy of the .img file they supply, renamed it .iso and imported it as a VM. Restored from my full back up and that all seems fantastic.

    Minidnla Music server: Trivial. Grabbed a Debian .iso for Bookworm and copied that onto the NAS. Created a new machine which mirrored the specs of the Raspberry Pi, booted from the ISO then did an expert install. Once that was all stable with a basic core of stuff and networking, I've made a copy of that as a good base system. Then fired up minidnla on it, mounted my media and that's also woking. Not bad for a short weekend's work.

    Still not sure about the main NUC though. I'm thinking of buying a new USB stick so I can mess around getting it working on the Synology before I do anything drastic.

    Once that hurdle is sorted I'm torn between:

    1. Using a brand new install of Bookworm, re-installing Z-way server, OpenLuup, AltUI, MSR and HA bridge, then restoring across or
    2. Making an ISO of the current system, importing that and upgrading in place (which will be pretty risk free since I can snapshot everything before I make any changes.)

    Decisions, decisions.

    C

    General Discussion

  • RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose)
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    OK here's a useful resource:

    The Synology RAM megathread II

    With a linked sheet of all results that people have entered.

    Despite the thread I originally found, no one has got that particular RAM to work on the sheet. There's another Crucial item:
    CCT16G4SFD824A

    Which has 10 reports of working in the 224+

    Return initiated, new RAM arriving tomorrow. £10 more expensive so £35.

    <edit> New RAM in and booted fine. Takes a little longer to come up (I assume it takes a bit longer to check 18G of RAM than 2G 🙂 I think I'll start another thread about how I'm going to do this.

    C

    General Discussion

  • RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose)
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Hmm, I've just tried a 16G stick that was meant to work from Amazon, Crucial. Won't boot.
    Also an 8G Transcend stick. Also won't boot.

    I'm not missing anything stupid, am I? Power down, remove the drives, clip in the module, re-insert discs and power up?

    Just sits there for > 60 seconds with the blue LED blinking.

    C

    General Discussion

  • RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose)
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    I found thread that showed Crucial was working. £25. Will report back when I've installed it.

    The discs are insane as well.

    I recall the USB issues. Hmmm.

    C

    General Discussion

  • RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose)
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    OK got it. I'd still have to migrate from the NUC to some kind of container. A VM might be favourite.

    Still have two questions:

    1. Are all my Z-wave devices paired to the stick i.e. if I move the stick to another devices, will the devices follow?
    2. Can I use the stick on my Synology?

    Any thoughts?

    Cheers

    C

    General Discussion

  • RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose)
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Well, I just ordered 16G of RAM 🙂

    @therealdb said in RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose):

    I have a NUC that's running Reactor, Home Assistant, ZwaveJS, a couple of other obscure things, and the storage of those container is backupped every hour, day, week and month.

    OK, this is confusing to me. You've got a NUC? But that's running Docker so everything is containerised on the NUC, not the Synology?

    C

    General Discussion

  • RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose)
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Sort of 'Ohh, if you want to go there, I wouldn't start from here, if I were you' 🙂

    Thinking on I've ordered some more RAM for my Synology. Might start migrating some of the easier stuff onto a virtual machine, as Mosquitto, HA Bridge and so on should be easy.

    C

    General Discussion

  • RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose)
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Hi everyone. Thanks for all your input recently on the topic of local notifications. I think we got some really interesting solutions 🙂

    Back to more prosaic matters. Most of you will know that I've been messing around with this stuff for some years. My last major change was when I migrated from Vera, which was something like 4-5 years ago.

    While my system has grown, it's not really altered very regularly, although I try to keep most of it kind of up to date.

    Current set up:
    Intel NUC that runs:
    Bare metal install of Debian
    Z-way server with Z-wave.me USB stick
    Openluup
    Altui
    Multi system reactor
    HA Bridge
    Mosquito

    Raspberry Pi
    Running Home Assistant

    About 40 varied Z-wave and Wifi devices

    I also have a Synology DS224+ which may inform some responses.

    Home Assistant recovery is pretty simple. I get a full backup of the system every night dumped onto my SAN and I know from experience that it would simply be a case of booting up a new install and feeding it the backup.

    The NUC on the other hand....
    Coming from a commercial IT world, I am becoming more and more conscious that I don't really feel I have a suitable disaster recovery plan, and my core system is running on hardware heading for 10 years old.

    My initial thought, which I've kept putting off as it's awkward would be to grab a nice SSD, reboot the NUC into Mint or something similar and simply do a dd copy onto a new drive. I can get a replacement NUC on ebay simply enough, and keep it in a cupboard if anything other than the hard drive fails on the existing one, but this feels rather like a stop gap. However one immediate question:

    If I had to use the replacement NUC would all the Z-wave devices simply carry on talking to the stick, or would they all need to be re-paired?

    How easy would it be to move everything the NUC does (as a start) onto the NAS? Create a VM and clone the disc onto it?

    Should I move to Docker? Something else?

    What are the hive mind's thoughts?

    Apologies if we've done this before, but while it all just works...

    Cheers!

    C

    General Discussion

  • Local notification methods?
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Niiiice!

    Thanks
    C

    Multi-System Reactor

  • Local notification methods?
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Interesting, ta. Think I've got an old pi kicking around. OTOH between one Volumio, HA Companion on my phone, and all my Macs talking to me, I think I have enough 😄

    C

    Multi-System Reactor

  • AltUI sans internet connection
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Only to flick some switches on (or off) I think the only one that might have an issue is the thermostat, but there's a reaction in MSR that handles that, so should be good.

    Thanks!

    C

    Software

  • Local notification methods?
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    And another option! OS X has a 'say' command that does, well, exactly what you'd think.

    And it's possible to unmute the output from a command line so ssh to my local macs, run the script and Robert is your father's brother

    C

    Multi-System Reactor

  • AltUI sans internet connection
    CatmanV2C CatmanV2

    Hmm, had a quick scan and looks like it might be rather heavy duty for the rare occasions. I think I'll try the Console next time!

    C

    Software
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