Rule condition shows TRUE in UI but Rule never transitions to SET — survives full restart

[toggledbits]

Well, it seems to do that, but it also seems to expose some odd initialization from the HA side. Digging in...

[toggledbits]

Can you post or upload your template configuration (from HA)?

[CatmanV2]

This was a Claude.AI creation ('cos obviously it's way beyond me!) The specific sensor is at the end but I've posted the whole thing in case...

#################################################
# OwnTracks MQTT Package (inregions-based)
# Phones: Catman & Rachel
#################################################

mqtt:
  sensor:



    ###############################################
    # CATMAN — iPhone
    ###############################################

    - name: "Catman In Regions"
      state_topic: "owntracks/catman/catmaniphone"
      icon: mdi:map-marker-multiple
      value_template: >
        {% if value_json._type == 'location'
              and value_json.inregions is defined %}
          {{ value_json.inregions | join(', ') }}
        {% else %}
          {{ states('sensor.catman_in_regions') }}
        {% endif %}

    - name: "Catman Primary Region"
      state_topic: "owntracks/catman/catmaniphone"
      icon: mdi:map-marker
      value_template: >
        {% if value_json._type == 'location'
              and value_json.inregions is defined
              and value_json.inregions | length > 0 %}
          {{ value_json.inregions[0] }}
        {% else %}
          away
        {% endif %}

    - name: "Catman Location Last Update"
      state_topic: "owntracks/catman/catmaniphone"
      device_class: timestamp
      value_template: >
        {% if value_json._type == 'location'
              and value_json.tst is defined %}
          {{ value_json.tst | int | timestamp_local }}
        {% else %}
          {{ states('sensor.catman_location_last_update') }}
        {% endif %}

    - name: "Catman At Home"
      state_topic: "owntracks/catman/catmaniphone"
      icon: mdi:home
      value_template: >
        {% if value_json._type == 'location'
              and value_json.inregions is defined %}
          {{ 'home' in value_json.inregions | map('lower') | list }}
        {% else %}
          {{ states('sensor.catman_at_home') }}
        {% endif %}

    ###############################################
    # RACHEL — iPhone
    ###############################################

    - name: "Rachel In Regions"
      state_topic: "owntracks/rachel/racheliphone"
      icon: mdi:map-marker-multiple
      value_template: >
        {% if value_json._type == 'location'
              and value_json.inregions is defined %}
          {{ value_json.inregions | join(', ') }}
        {% else %}
          {{ states('sensor.rachel_in_regions') }}
        {% endif %}

    - name: "Rachel Primary Region"
      state_topic: "owntracks/rachel/racheliphone"
      icon: mdi:map-marker
      value_template: >
        {% if value_json._type == 'location'
              and value_json.inregions is defined
              and value_json.inregions | length > 0 %}
          {{ value_json.inregions[0] }}
        {% else %}
          away
        {% endif %}

    - name: "Rachel Location Last Update"
      state_topic: "owntracks/rachel/racheliphone"
      device_class: timestamp
      value_template: >
        {% if value_json._type == 'location'
              and value_json.tst is defined %}
          {{ value_json.tst | int | timestamp_local }}
        {% else %}
          {{ states('sensor.rachel_location_last_update') }}
        {% endif %}

    - name: "Rachel At Home"
      state_topic: "owntracks/rachel/racheliphone"
      icon: mdi:home
      value_template: >
        {% if value_json._type == 'location'
              and value_json.inregions is defined %}
          {{ 'home' in value_json.inregions | map('lower') | list }}
        {% else %}
          {{ states('sensor.rachel_at_home') }}
        {% endif %}

#################################################
# TEMPLATE SENSORS (merged correctly)
#################################################

template:
  - sensor:
      - name: "Household Presence"
        icon: mdi:account-group
        state: >
          {% set catman = states('sensor.catman_primary_region') | lower %}
          {% set rachel = states('sensor.rachel_primary_region') | lower %}

          {% set cm =
            '🏠' if catman == 'home' else
            '🏢' if catman == 'office' else
            '🚗'
          %}

          {% set ra =
            '🏠' if rachel == 'home' else
            '🏢' if rachel == 'office' else
            '🚗'
          %}

          Catman {{ cm }} | Rachel {{ ra }}

  - binary_sensor:
      - name: "Someone Home"
        icon: mdi:home-account
        state: >
          {{ states('sensor.catman_primary_region') | lower == 'home'
             or states('sensor.rachel_primary_region') | lower == 'home' }}
            


        

C

[toggledbits]

Does that sensor reliably come up "off" when you restart HA?

[CatmanV2]

I don't believe so, It's been used in several places in HA without issue across restarts. I will see if I can double check that however, as it may simply not have been noticed if it's coming up 'off' and immediately tripping to the correct state.

C

[CatmanV2]

OK I've just done some digging: When HA restarts, all three sensors

sensor.rachel_primary_region

Go 'unknown'

Someone Home (fairly logically) goes 'Off'

The period of 'Unknown' is about 5-10 seconds before the correct status is realised.

Here's the data from the last restart

binary_sensor.someone_home	unknown	2026-05-19T12:06:55.461Z
binary_sensor.someone_home	off	2026-05-19T12:07:04.582Z
binary_sensor.someone_home	on	2026-05-19T12:07:11.505Z

TIA

C

[therealdb]

It may. I have similar behavior with other Template sensors being 0/null/off at boot.

As a defensive measure, I always make the condition to be sustained for at least 10 secs and/or avoid them being evaluated when ha has been restarted for the last 20 secs.

I rarely use ha templates, so my experience is anecdotal.

[CatmanV2]

Thanks, helpful input!

C

[therealdb]

I think you may just filter for unknown and return null. Tell that to my friend Claude

[CatmanV2]

@therealdb that would rather force (in this case) all the heating off (or on), wouldn't it?

I like the idea of a 30 second delay though.

C

[therealdb]

I don’t know if setting to null it’s better for reactor. @toggledbits here is the best source of truth.

[CatmanV2]

Of course. I'm not sure what I'd do without him!

C

[toggledbits]

OK. I can't prevent HA from starting up in an undefined state, and the effect that can have on the rules, but @therealdb is spot-on with an approach to dealing with that, since the corrected state usually comes pretty quickly after. Sometimes, you just have to debounce those switches a little.

Beyond that, there is definitely an opportunity for a race condition and I think I have a good general fix for that. The logs support that cause as well. Testing my updates now. Will likely do a build with the update tomorrow.

[CatmanV2]

Fabulous!

I've actually just put reset delays in the two rules that are triggered. The 'set' is heating on so it's the reset that's a PITA. That should cover it.

C

[toggledbits]

This is just a follow-up to link this conversation to the announcement for the build that addresses it, and expands generally on transient startup/outage states in HA integrations

[CatmanV2]

Thanks, installed and working.

Although after the first restart there were some virtual switches in HA that were not being accurately reflected in MSR, but I restarted MSR again, and everything looks fine.

Thanks again for your help. Next time I'll upload the logs to start with!

C