Disaster recovery and virtualisation

[mhulsey91]

So I live out in a rural area and there are no good internet providers besides Hughesnet, or using a mobile hotspot. My question is can you have a home network witha hub nut no wifi? I mainly would just want a few smart light switches, maybe a RGB Phillips HUE light here and there, and maybe even a camarea to watch my driveway and send me alerts when someone is there (while I'm there obviously) because we can't see our driveway from our living room. Was just curious to see if this would be possible or not. Our Verizon mobile hotspot works great while we are able to monitor it but sometimes it randomly shuts off even when it is plugged in. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[therealdb]

Get a 5G router and setup a WiFi network. The router will have an Ethernet port and its own WiFi.

I’m running one since last year, since a wired connection will be 1/10th of the bandwidth of the mobile one I’m using (no caps, dedicated bandwidth because it’s an offer to cover area not well reached by wire via wireless). Since it’s a router, there’s no need to restart it and it’s very stable.

[mhulsey91]

@therealdb soo long story short yes you need a WiFi network? I just wasn't sure because I read something about Zigbee and Zwave being able to talk to each other and if you had a hub they worked even better without WiFi. Just wasn't sure what to think.

[tunnus]

@mhulsey91 yep, zigbee or z-wave do not need a wifi for their own (mesh) communication between a hub and switches, sensors etc.

[mhulsey91]

@tunnus so I don't need WiFi then. Out of the 2 what is better? Zigbee or Zwave?

[tunnus]

@mhulsey91 get Hubitat and you get both

[rafale77]

Most of us use both for flexibility. Zigbee has cheaper devices and some devices only exist on zigbee. Z-wave also has some unique devices. Since you won't have wifi, you probably don't care that Zigbee interferes with Wifi but also microwave ovens, BT and most cordless phones.... Wifi is a very inefficient protocol for RF. Z-wave is the most efficient from an energy consumption and RF emission perspective, closely followed by Zigbee. I avoid wifi smarthome devices myself because they are fundamentally a waste of bandwidth and energy.

[CatmanV2]

Perhaps another thing to point out is that WiFi<> Internet and there is absolutely no technical reason you cannot have a WiFi network simply because you have no internet access

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[therealdb]

@mhulsey91 if you want notifications, as you’re posted, or cams, you’ll need a WiFi network for sure, attached to internet if you want to send them let’s say to your phone.

[CatmanV2]

@therealdb well, assuming you phone is not connected to the same WiFi......

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[mhulsey91]

Okay so I think my general question is answered. I kinda figured the camera system was a long shot without WiFi. Next question is, is the Hubitat a good hub for both zwave and zigbee? I think some of the stuff I mentioned like HUE lights run on the Zigbee system. But I guess I don't want everything running off of Zigbee in case I do get internet in the future. Also will I still be able to set schedules on smart switches and do stuff like that without WiFi?

[rafale77]

Euhh, I think something is amiss here. Why running everything off of Zigbee have anything to do with getting internet in the future? If you get a hubitat, your hub will be hubitat. Wifi is just a different type of wireless network communication like zigbee and zwave. They just work on different protocols and frequencies and have different purposes:

WIFI or WLAN is meant for high bandwidth, high power devices like your mobile computer and is meant to offer a bandwidth as close as possible to the wired ethernet (LAN) network it is piggy backed to. Not the most appropriate for smarthomes and especially for battery operated devices because it consumes more power and each device uses bandwidth. Given how little bandwidth smarthome device require, the communication overhead associated with WIFI makes it very wasteful but at this day in age, some people may have plenty of wifi bandwidth to use...

Zwave is a dedicated smarthome protocol which has a fairly good universality mostly due to the fact that it was controller by a single company. Devices tend to be more expensive as a result but prices have been dropping.

Zigbee is another dedicated smarthome protocol but it operates in the same wireless frequency band as WIFI. It is more opened and a lot of companies are involved in maintaining it and therefore has taken off quite nicely.

Zigbee and Zwave require a controller like Hubitat which also need to connect a wired network through ethernet. The controller would have both the radio and small computer on board in which you would setup a software from which to control your devices.
WIFI on the other hand, because of the ubiquity of its use, reuses the radio either on your WIFI router or WIFI access point but usually sends the controlling software out in the cloud so you would need internet access. There are also platforms which enables WIFI devices to be controller locally with a software you would download from the internet.

Internet Access and WIFI are not the same. You can have internet access without WIFI or WIFI without internet access. Typically internet access comes in through a MODEM be it from Cable, Telephone or Fibre. There also now 4G/LTE Modem which enable connection to the cellular internet service which would be slower and more expensive and then output it through wire.

Your smarthome fundamentally doesn't need WIFI or internet access but you do need a home wired network in any case to be able to access your controller. Adding WIFI or internet later has no impact whatsoever on your Zwave or Zigbee setup.

[Black Cat]

I don't see how you can gain access to the hub or otherwise control it without a router - ?
The only one I know of that runs without a router is Homeseer running on Windows.

[rafale77]

Indeed! An ethernet network requires a router... or at least you need a DHCP server for these hubs (normally a function of any router and present in most managed ethernet switches).

[CatmanV2]

@rafale77 said in Smart home with no WIFI:

An ethernet network requires a router..

It doesn't really. Doesn't even need DHCP. Probably needs a switch.

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