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  3. Seeking experts for implementing Modbus TCP
Disaster recovery and virtualisation
CatmanV2C
Following on from my last thread, some progress has been made over the weekend. With 18G of spanky RAM in my Synology DS224+. I've jumped into the murky world of virtualisation and already eliminated the need for two Raspberry Pi's from my system. Home Assistant: In theory they provide an OVA file which is supported by the Synology. I couldn't get it to work, however, so grabbed a copy of the .img file they supply, renamed it .iso and imported it as a VM. Restored from my full back up and that all seems fantastic. Minidnla Music server: Trivial. Grabbed a Debian .iso for Bookworm and copied that onto the NAS. Created a new machine which mirrored the specs of the Raspberry Pi, booted from the ISO then did an expert install. Once that was all stable with a basic core of stuff and networking, I've made a copy of that as a good base system. Then fired up minidnla on it, mounted my media and that's also woking. Not bad for a short weekend's work. Still not sure about the main NUC though. I'm thinking of buying a new USB stick so I can mess around getting it working on the Synology before I do anything drastic. Once that hurdle is sorted I'm torn between: Using a brand new install of Bookworm, re-installing Z-way server, OpenLuup, AltUI, MSR and HA bridge, then restoring across or Making an ISO of the current system, importing that and upgrading in place (which will be pretty risk free since I can snapshot everything before I make any changes.) Decisions, decisions. C
General Discussion
RFC: When disaster strikes (sorry it's a bit verbose)
CatmanV2C
Hi everyone. Thanks for all your input recently on the topic of local notifications. I think we got some really interesting solutions Back to more prosaic matters. Most of you will know that I've been messing around with this stuff for some years. My last major change was when I migrated from Vera, which was something like 4-5 years ago. While my system has grown, it's not really altered very regularly, although I try to keep most of it kind of up to date. Current set up: Intel NUC that runs: Bare metal install of Debian Z-way server with Z-wave.me USB stick Openluup Altui Multi system reactor HA Bridge Mosquito Raspberry Pi Running Home Assistant About 40 varied Z-wave and Wifi devices I also have a Synology DS224+ which may inform some responses. Home Assistant recovery is pretty simple. I get a full backup of the system every night dumped onto my SAN and I know from experience that it would simply be a case of booting up a new install and feeding it the backup. The NUC on the other hand.... Coming from a commercial IT world, I am becoming more and more conscious that I don't really feel I have a suitable disaster recovery plan, and my core system is running on hardware heading for 10 years old. My initial thought, which I've kept putting off as it's awkward would be to grab a nice SSD, reboot the NUC into Mint or something similar and simply do a dd copy onto a new drive. I can get a replacement NUC on ebay simply enough, and keep it in a cupboard if anything other than the hard drive fails on the existing one, but this feels rather like a stop gap. However one immediate question: If I had to use the replacement NUC would all the Z-wave devices simply carry on talking to the stick, or would they all need to be re-paired? How easy would it be to move everything the NUC does (as a start) onto the NAS? Create a VM and clone the disc onto it? Should I move to Docker? Something else? What are the hive mind's thoughts? Apologies if we've done this before, but while it all just works... Cheers! C
General Discussion
Eachen No Neutral smart wall switch to lights and Sonoff Mini R4 switch for LEDs
R
Topic thumbnail image
General Discussion
Hello and first network question
D
Just bought a couple of generic smart plugs and set them up easily using SmartLife app in the house I then plugged one into a workshop over 100m away This workshop has a hardwired internet connection with a separate wireless access router (not mesh) after doing a reset on the device and pairing to the new router it actually works from the house when my phone is connected to a completely separate wifi network - how is that possible ? I did read something about these devices connecting to a server somewhere in China similar to IP cameras but there is no lag
General Discussion
Lights switches for warehouse
S
I need to replace about 15 traditional wall light switches (no neutral wire) to turn on/off all lights with one operation inside the warehouse. And still maintain the ability to control each light individually. The preference is not to set up a Wifi for each switch to reduce the number of devices connected to the network, and also, they change the Wifi password regularly, so they do not want to change all 15 switches. I am looking for some solution that will achieve this with either Bluetooth/RF or any other technology. The warehouse dimensions are about 100ftx100ft with sheetrock walls. Please assist.
General Discussion
'Random' lights turning on
CatmanV2C
I thought I had created a topic on this some time back, but can't find it to close the loop. The issue was the lights on my drive appeared to be randomly switching on, with nothing from MSR logging and just a simple 'turn this on' in Openluup logs. Finally got to the bottom of it this morning, which might help someone. Turns out that somehow Alexa has decided that my drive lights are part of my Living room. If I tell her 'Living room lights on' the drive lights also come on. And if I tell her to turn them off, they also go off. Which is madness because they are NOT in the living room group. Current solution is to disable the drive lights in the Alexa app, which is fine as I never need to voice control them. C
General Discussion
New to Home Automation Looking for a Single app?
A
Hi All Hopefully this place looks like a helpful forum as I’m quite new to all this! I’ve had a few devices all working separately /through their proprietary apps but we’re just finishing off a large house extension and this has added to the list. I’d ideally like to be able to view/switch a number of different devices on one screen/head end but have no idea where to start. The devices we have/will have shortly are as follows; Zigbee Smart Sockets Zigbee smart switches (for lights) Heatmiser Neo Underfloor Heating (this runs from a Samsung ASHP but that part is automatic) Samsung VRF air conditioning (currently using Smart Things App) Hive (2xLTHW heating circuits in the existing house and Hot Water) Ring (doorbell!) Hik Vision PoE CCTV We have lots of appliances (Neff N70) which we can control remotely but not too fussed about controlling those at the Moment) Any help/recommendations would be appreciated! Thanks Adrian
General Discussion
Sending data to a USB port to interface with a wireless switch
F
I have a legacy home automation set-up running on Windows XP. the computer and software have now died. I have written a very nice Excel VBA program to replace the software and it can run on any modern Windows system. My only remaining problem is to output the correct signal to a USB port to trigger the wireless switches. Has anybody done a similar exercise. Please help.
General Discussion
Looking for Remote Switch boxes that can also be used with a wireless Decora Style Switch.
V
Hi All, Kind of new to Home Automation. Started off Using Amazon Echo units and added a Samsung SmartThings hub. I have mostly been using plug in modules for turning lights on and off. I live in a very rural area where the internet goes out a lot. I eventually want to change to to a non internet Hub so things will work without needing an internet connection. But I will post with those questions at a later date. So, the task at hand is this: I have flood lights at each corner of my house. They are currently controlled by switches at the front and back doors. I would like to add Security Cameras to each corner also. I can easily find small Wifi switches to put into the electrical box where the flood lights are located, then I can terminate the leads together behind the Decora switch to have constant power. Then I can use the constant power up at the lights electrical box to power the security cameras. I would also like to have a wireless switch to take the place of the Decora switch to be able to turn the lights off and on. I cannot seem to find a product like this. It seems I can find the small wired in switch boxes that will also come with external smart wall switches, but the wall switches are an external box that does not fit in or cover the existing Wall switch electrical box. I can also find Wireless Decora switches that come with a remote wired in small switch box , but they all seem to be RF and do not integrate with a Smart Hub. I am hoping someone here knows of a product that matches what I am looking for. Any help would be appreciated. Also any recommendations for Wireless Security cameras are welcome. Thanks for any help.
General Discussion
Just starting what hub is best.
I
Dear Forum, I am just starting a smart home system. I've wanted to do this for 10 years at most and really would like to get a start. What I have are a couple of SONOFF wifi relays, some 433 (Hz/mHz) switches ( not wifi ) a couple of wifi lightbulbs, and I'd like to expand wifi thermostat, leak/water detectors, garage door openers and what ever else I can think of. In the SONOFF items I have it's a particular app, the wifi bulbs are another app, and if I do a thermostat there might be another app. My wife is not a Luddite but she damn sure doesn't want to have to trouble shoot if/why a particular app breaks down. So in what I do understand about smart home things is that I need/want a HUB. I spent 15 years doing some programming so I do have some computer ability, though I'd prefer to stay away from HAVING to line command operate the hub. I would like a list of HUB's that people have found to be the best. Even better are links to let's say Amazon for that hub. Regards from Noob Smart Home, Barry
General Discussion
Logitech logic
CatmanV2C
Hello lovely people. Long time and all that. Hope you're all doing OK. Bit of a left field one here, looking for extra eyes more than an answer and you're the most logical bunch I know Part of our HA system is a Logitech Elite hub and remote control. This is programmed to control my Cyrus Stereo, our TV, and HDMI switch and our Virgin V6 box. I've been away for a couple of days. Got back this evening to (eventually) work out that the V6 box appears to be not accepting any commands from the Logitech. Everything has been rebooted. Logitech uses IR to control Cyrus: Fine TV: Fine HDMI: Fine Remote control uses Bluetooth to control Hub. All commands from the Remote to the hub are executed (one might assume correctly) as the activity LED responds, and if you're controlling (say) the Cyrus, all works fine. iOS App can be used to control Hub over the WLAN: All commands from the App re executed (one might assume correctly) as the activity LED responds, and if you're controlling (say) the Cyrus, all works fine. Native remote (that uses as far as I know bluetooth) to control the V6 box works fine. V6 box refuses to acknowledge any command other than from the native remote. Remote or app provoke absolutely zero response from the V6 box. This is annoying, but damned if I can think of any logical reason. One might assume a firmware update on the V6 box, but given that the Hub simply emulates the native remote, that seems unlikely. I'm struggling to think of where even to start troubleshooting this, so any random thoughts would be appreciated. My initial approach is to buy another hub in case there's a different radio set that's failed in the hub... TIA! C
General Discussion
Recommendation for a smart in-wall plug
D
I currently have an HVAC system in the attic - for heating and A/C. 120v is supplied to the unit to run the gas heating. A/C uses 240v. I have an ecobee thermostat...which sometimes goes offline....not often. When it goes offline, I need to turn the 120v power to the HVAC system off and then back on (the ecobee gets its power from the HVAC system). That resets the ecobee and all is fine. I spend the summer away from this house and if the ecobee goes offine..I have no current method to reset the HVAC 120v power remotely. My idea is to replace the current 120v plug in the attic with a smart plug...then I can remotely turn the 120v power off and the ecobee will reset and come back online. I use Wyze and Lutron Casita in the house currently and was hoping I could find an in-wall smart plug from Wyze or Lutron. Obviously, I don't need diming, etc...just the ability to turn the plug power on/off. I've seen some options...but one problem I have is the attic can reach up to 135F in the summer...many of the smart plugs I've seen are not rated for that temperature. Might any of you have any thoughts on a smart plug I might want to look at? I don't want to invest in anything that would require a new hub - so either WiFi based or Casita HUB based. I need 120v and 15amp ratings. Thanks in advance.
General Discussion
Expression Evaluation - Last Seen Date/Time
S
Topic thumbnail image
General Discussion
UK - Yale Smart Locks and Wi-Fi Bridge
S
BACKGROUND I have been using 4 x Yale Contactless Connected Door Locks for several years (they use either a rfid tag or code to enter) I have also been using 1 x Yale L1 Door Lock on the main front door and this connects via Yale Software Yale contacted me to advise the L1 Lock software was being withdrawn and I needed to install a Yale Access Module into the existing lock and a Wi-Fi Bridge to link it with the newly released software ALL of the above was working just fine. RECENT Yale emailed to advise I should add a Yale Access Module to each of the 4 other locks as this would link with the updated software via the Wi-Fi Bridge. They offered a deal of just £4 each for these Modules so I got them. THE PROBLEM I found that only 2 of these modules would slot easily into the locks - two of them bent the pins and one of those snapped the female part in a lock (I do have a spare lock but thats not the point). Anyway, I began to set-up the two fitted Modules with the Wi-Fi Bridge and I eventually found (thanks Google, NOT Yale) that I now need 1 x Wi-Fi Bridge PER LOCK (£50 each). QUESTION Does anyone know of a compatible Wi-Fi Bridge which works with Yale AND can handle multiple connections (ie 5 all 5 of my locks) ? THANK YOU
General Discussion
iCOMEN boiler switch
V
Hello, I had an iCOMEN boiler switch that worked for many years. And I used iCOMEN app on my phone to manage it. Short time ago app started to have an error message that it cannot connect to the server, and after some time the device also stopped working.
General Discussion
Would you use a self-hosted geofencing solution?
toggledbitsT
Some of you may know that I took at shot at building an alternate geofencing solution for Vera. The core of it was system agnostic, using the OwnTracks application and AWS lambdas to track devices and keep a central data, then disseminate that to the Vera via a websocket-based plugin. It worked with other apps as well, including Tasker and GPSLogger, but of the dozen people that were testing it, most used OwnTracks. A lot was learned in the process, not the least of which is that the success of any such solution is highly dependent on the phone and its settings. Phone manufacturers love to set things up for the longest battery life, of course, but that's usually very anti-geofencing behavior. In the case of at least one brand, it was unusable and the settings could not be modified. It was also cost-prohibitive to maintain on Amazon, as AWS grabs a dime here and a dollar there and before you know it, it added $100/month to my AWS bill, which my wife deducted from my Scotch budget. Unacceptable. But it's quite reasonable to use OwnTracks to a local endpoint, and I could pretty easily replicate the functionality as a local application, or maybe even as an additional endpoint built into MSR's API (still separate port and process, but in the package). So the question really is... would you do it, or would you be too concerned about the security risks associated (e.g., dynamic DNS and NAT mapping in the firewall necessary for the phone to contact the service when not on LAN)?
General Discussion
Forum sysops
A
Hello forum instigators. Not sure who host/runs the forum software but a couple of challenges: The chat is not currently usable, as the scrolling is all not right and it's not possible to read chats or send chats reliably. There are a lot of female members that should perhaps be on another forum; where they can advertise their skills more appropriately. Note: I agree it's a job, like any other. Whoever you are - thank you for your invaluable work.
General Discussion
looking for a light switch with presence sensor?
T
I run a B&B and am looking for a way to turn the lights off whenever a room is unoccupied for X amount of time. The guest should still be able to turn the lights on and off manually, but should not be able to disable the auto turn off feature if the room is unoccupied. I guess I am looking for a light switch with a built in presence sensor? I guess a presence sensor would be better as if it is a motion sensor, the lights may go off unwanted if the guest fails to make sufficient movement e.g. if the guest is lying down watching a film. Are there any products on the market that would work for my application?
General Discussion
Looking for Bluetooth device for smartphone audio transmission
M
Hello, I am in search of a device capable of using Bluetooth to connect with a smartphone and serve as its primary sound source on demand. This device should function similarly to conventional Bluetooth headphones, which automatically become the phone's sound output upon activation. However, this device should differ in that it transmits the audio signal to an amplifier via a jack, SPDIF, or similar connection. Alternatively, it could be an integrated amplifier that directly sends the signal to passive speakers. The control of this process should be manageable through an API such as MQTT, REST, MODBUS, or similar. Are you aware of any devices that operate in this manner? The concept is as follows: upon entering the bathroom, I would press a wall-mounted switch. This switch would send a signal to the Bluetooth device, prompting it to connect to my smartphone and seamlessly continue playing the audiobook I am currently listening to. Instead of using the phone's speakers, it would seamlessly start playing through ceiling-mounted speakers. Many thanks
General Discussion
Beginner assistance
R
Hi folks, I currently have some cheap Zigbee hub and some Amazon Alexas running my smart home which mostly consists of Zigbee power strips and Zigbee battery powered switches. It all worked OK originally, but now whenever I press a Zigbee switch the light in the corresponding plug switches on then immediately off again. If I ask Alexa to turn the light on it works fine. Likewise if I switch it on from my phone. Any ideas what the issue could be? I've tried unplugging the hub a number of times but that doesn't seem to fix it. I was thinking about getting a Homey Pro 2023 to speed things up (tmas the Zigbee hub seems to be really slow now as well, for some reason) but I'm not sure about that either. Any suggestions greatly appreciated!
General Discussion

Seeking experts for implementing Modbus TCP

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  • CrilleC Offline
    CrilleC Offline
    Crille
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    I just upgraded the firmware for the inverter for my solar panels and that made it possible to enable Modbus TCP.
    At a glance that would be perfect for live production data fed into my home automation environment but my lack of knowledge about the protocol and how to put the data where I want it failed me.

    What I have:

    MSR
    openLuup
    Vera Secure
    Ezlo Plus
    Mosquitto
    Homebridge
    Windows Server
    Ubuntu Server
    Quite decent PowerShell skills
    Enough Lua knowledge to write my own functions and handlers
    The inverters Modbus interface definitions

    What I want to achive:

    Something that can be run by systemd och anything else monitoring the status and keeping the Modbus connection alive.
    Publish readings over MQTT or whatever fits my setup, the goal is to feed the data into openLuup in someway so Historian can log the data for Grafana and display current production to HomeKit (as a mqttthing light sensor, since there is no other accessory suitable at the moment).

    Anyone implemented Modbus TCP in similar projects or have any guidance on how to reach my goal?

    Open for alternative solutions as well, all suggestions are appreciated!

    therealdbT 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • B Offline
      B Offline
      benni33
      wrote on last edited by benni33
      #2

      Hi,
      I was just browsing here and than saw your post. Just for the sake of answering I registered 😄

      At first we need some more infos about your inverter.
      You can ask the manufacturer about modbus details. (already done)

      Than this project might be exactly what you you are looking for:

      GitHub - bohdan-s/SunGather

      GitHub - bohdan-s/SunGather

      Contribute to bohdan-s/SunGather development by creating an account on GitHub.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Black CatB Offline
        Black CatB Offline
        Black Cat
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        If you are looking for modbus integration then you might look at HomeSeer which has a Modbus plug in and supports MQTT
        There is an existing thread about Solar Edge which mentions that they (Solar Edge) do not expose panel information but you might want to follow this up.

        https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/energy-management-plug-ins/energy-management-discussion/solaredge-stefxx

        aka Zedrally

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • S Offline
          S Offline
          sender
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Modbus Controller

          Modbus Controller

          Instructions for setting up the Modbus Controller component.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • CrilleC Crille

            I just upgraded the firmware for the inverter for my solar panels and that made it possible to enable Modbus TCP.
            At a glance that would be perfect for live production data fed into my home automation environment but my lack of knowledge about the protocol and how to put the data where I want it failed me.

            What I have:

            MSR
            openLuup
            Vera Secure
            Ezlo Plus
            Mosquitto
            Homebridge
            Windows Server
            Ubuntu Server
            Quite decent PowerShell skills
            Enough Lua knowledge to write my own functions and handlers
            The inverters Modbus interface definitions

            What I want to achive:

            Something that can be run by systemd och anything else monitoring the status and keeping the Modbus connection alive.
            Publish readings over MQTT or whatever fits my setup, the goal is to feed the data into openLuup in someway so Historian can log the data for Grafana and display current production to HomeKit (as a mqttthing light sensor, since there is no other accessory suitable at the moment).

            Anyone implemented Modbus TCP in similar projects or have any guidance on how to reach my goal?

            Open for alternative solutions as well, all suggestions are appreciated!

            therealdbT Offline
            therealdbT Offline
            therealdb
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I have a Huawei inverter, so modbus support is hacky and I went the Shelly route. I have a Smelly EM feeding data in real time into MQTT - then to MSR and Home Assistant. I don't need fancy stats about my solar, just the production, in order to maximize self-consumption.

            26d8880e-1e2a-43ed-97c0-9c464d4ed3ca-image.png

            The graphs are a nice bonus that you'd create, using native HASS solar prediction as well.

            All that said, HASS has a native support for many solar inverters, take a look, since long term it's probably easy to use them than maintain your own integration.

            --
            On a mission to automate everything.

            My MS Reactor contrib
            My Luup Plug-ins

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • CrilleC Offline
              CrilleC Offline
              Crille
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Thank you all for your ideas!

              @benni33 The inverter is a Huawei SUN2000-12KTL-M0 with a SDongleA-05 enabled for Modbus TCP. I'm guessing SunGather is for Sungrow inverters only but I gave it a shot in a docker with edited config.yaml but all I get is "Modbus connection failed".

              @Black-Cat I'm trying to avoid paid services but will investigate this further.

              @sender Modbus Controller looks like it needs physical RS 485 Modbus connection and not compatible with Modbus TCP?

              @therealdb That's an approach I could use as an alternative.
              I got this sort of working. It connects to the inverter and reads data but publishes only twice to the broker, then nothing. Going to fiddle with it more to see whats going on...
              HASS has been on my mind just doing my best to not involve even more systems than I already have.

              therealdbT S 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • CrilleC Crille

                Thank you all for your ideas!

                @benni33 The inverter is a Huawei SUN2000-12KTL-M0 with a SDongleA-05 enabled for Modbus TCP. I'm guessing SunGather is for Sungrow inverters only but I gave it a shot in a docker with edited config.yaml but all I get is "Modbus connection failed".

                @Black-Cat I'm trying to avoid paid services but will investigate this further.

                @sender Modbus Controller looks like it needs physical RS 485 Modbus connection and not compatible with Modbus TCP?

                @therealdb That's an approach I could use as an alternative.
                I got this sort of working. It connects to the inverter and reads data but publishes only twice to the broker, then nothing. Going to fiddle with it more to see whats going on...
                HASS has been on my mind just doing my best to not involve even more systems than I already have.

                therealdbT Offline
                therealdbT Offline
                therealdb
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @crille said in Seeking experts for implementing Modbus TCP:

                @therealdb That's an approach I could use as an alternative.
                I got this sort of working. It connects to the inverter and reads data but publishes only twice to the broker, then nothing. Going to fiddle with it more to see whats going on...
                HASS has been on my mind just doing my best to not involve even more systems than I already have.

                I have the same inverter and it has been a pain. Recently, Huawei has stopped modbus TCP to be enabled by default and changed its port. It's not documented and the chances they'll do it again are high. Anyway, if you're OK with MSR, Shelly EM are easily supported. I don't have a battery, since I could sell my excess to the grid (but I've built a couple of automations to use it - we'll see this summer, where the excess will be way higher, since I have bifacial panels) and I don't have microinverters, since panels are facing south and in plain sight.

                HASS has a nice UI for the energy part - and my wife loves it. I'm also storing the data into InfluxDB (via MSR) and I've built a couple of notifications aggregating data.

                --
                On a mission to automate everything.

                My MS Reactor contrib
                My Luup Plug-ins

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • CrilleC Crille

                  Thank you all for your ideas!

                  @benni33 The inverter is a Huawei SUN2000-12KTL-M0 with a SDongleA-05 enabled for Modbus TCP. I'm guessing SunGather is for Sungrow inverters only but I gave it a shot in a docker with edited config.yaml but all I get is "Modbus connection failed".

                  @Black-Cat I'm trying to avoid paid services but will investigate this further.

                  @sender Modbus Controller looks like it needs physical RS 485 Modbus connection and not compatible with Modbus TCP?

                  @therealdb That's an approach I could use as an alternative.
                  I got this sort of working. It connects to the inverter and reads data but publishes only twice to the broker, then nothing. Going to fiddle with it more to see whats going on...
                  HASS has been on my mind just doing my best to not involve even more systems than I already have.

                  S Offline
                  S Offline
                  sender
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @crille did no know you specifically needed modbus tcp. But that natively in homeassistant

                  Home Assistant

                  Modbus

                  Modbus

                  Instructions on how to integrate modbus and platforms.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • CrilleC Offline
                    CrilleC Offline
                    Crille
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    OK, after trying a few solutions a finally ended up with Home Assistant as a Hyper-V guest on my Windows server.
                    First I evaluated this by Emilv2 but it did not fit my needs and wasn't very stable.
                    The best option by far was this for Huawei inverters, I even tweaked the polling frequency down to 10s to have "realtime" data matching my ESP8266 hooked up to my electricity meter sending data every 10s.
                    Unfortunately HASS was not able to connect to openLuup broker so I enabled the HASS controller for MSR and echo the newly created sensors to openLuup.
                    I then wrote a MQTT handler for openLuup to set appropriate variables and do some math comparing electricity use and production and edited Historian to keep those for Grafana.

                    Been running it for almost 2 days now without any issues.

                    Some of the HASS sensors:
                    hass.PNG

                    openLuup variables:
                    solar.PNG

                    Grafana: (sorry for Swedish)
                    chart.PNG sum.PNG

                    This was a fun project and thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

                    1 Reply Last reply
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